The Form of Knowledge LO25986

From: Jan Lelie (
Date: 01/25/01

Replying to LO25969 --

Hello At and other in-formers of knowledge,

as always i'm unable to follow every thread and messages, but this title
struck a cord: knowledge in formation!

I've studied Biophysics, and i do not know what it has to do with
developing a deep awareness for being and / or becoming; i do know however
that grasping the idea of order out of chaos, an every day phenomenon -
look around and enjoy how your eyes create pictures from patterns of dots
- and understanding these things in terms of processes was very hard
indeed. I suppose that the tricks our mind uses to form a "movie" is not
yet available for the interpretation of the world as a whole.

> Why do they share this deep awareness? It is no coincidence that MP worked
> in physical chemistry while IP works in chemical physics. Both have to
> come to grib with the actual meaning of the chemical reaction in a very
> complex context which involves both chemistry and physics.
> The most constraining Mental Model which any learner (pupil, student and
> even you dear fellow learner) can have when trying to learn chemistry from
> the beginning, is to think of the chemical reactions as a "being"
> (picture) rather than a "becoming" (movie).


> Try to understand the LO-dialogue in this latter manner of the movie
> rather than a picture and a new world of understanding will unfold itself
> before you. You will also begin to understand depths in what MP and IP
> wrote which you previously were unware of. The fact that they know the
> chemical reaction is essential to understand them. I have tried to
> articulate the essence of this "knowing of reacting chemically".
> Try not to think of form or organisation as "being", but as
> "becoming-being".

I usually substitute the verb: to organise when one usually uses
organisation and also, to communicte or communicating when somebody speaks
of communication. I once noted that this is why i like the concept of The
Learning Organizing, but was told that English native speakers consider
learning more like a noun than a verb. (Last week i did this again with an
expert - so she told me - on communication and she was convinced that
communication (noun) and to communicate (verb) is the same and that i was
just playing word games).

I have some small books by a author called Stefan Themerson (O no, not
that man again!), mainly on logic, and some are written in what he calls
"semantic poetry". There a word is translated into its exact meaning. So
the words:

"the wine among the flowers,
O lonely me.."

is translated into:

"The fermented grape juice among the reproductive parts of seed-plants
O! I'm conscious of my state of being isolated from others.."

He introduce this concept because "tethered words of philosophers derive
from the winged words of poets", as they - philosophers - wanted very
precise meaning and took the words of the poets - who make (POIEIN)
meaning from the beginning. The process we have is that of "creating
meaning" and the moment one creates meaning, by substituting the meaning
of words in a sentence, the meaning seems to disappear. So, while writing
this, is seems to me that we want to control meaning by using words and -
perhaps because we do not pay them - attention - enough - are left with
very poor meaning. It reminds me of the words of Chris Argyrus: "Learning
in order to control - becoming (added by me) - inhibts learning". So
"informing in order to control - being - inhibits information" and
"meaning in order to control inhibits meaning". Somehow blocking people in
China from the internet starts making sense.

> By the way, to "understand everything in terms of beings" is called
> ontological thinking in philosophy. Most philosophers claim that all
> thinking is ontological. I know of many chemists who understand some
> philosophy, but I do not know any philosopher thinking ontological who
> understands the chemical reaction. Ontology without ontogeny is a serious
> Mental Model.

I like that word: ontogenesis. "In the beginning was the ontogenisis."

> With care and best wishes

Like wise


With kind regards - met vriendelijke groeten,

Jan Lelie

Drs J.C. Lelie CPIM (Jan) LOGISENS - Sparring Partner in Logistical Development mind@work est. 1998 - Group Resolution Process Support Tel.: (+ 31) (0)70 3243475 or car: (+ 31)(0)65 4685114 and/or taoSystems: + 31 (0)30 6377973 -

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