Replying to LO26165 --
On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:59:59 +0300 "Terje A. Tonsberg"
<tatonsberg@hotmail.com> writes:
Beloved Terje (and Don),
My spiritual teacher (who left his body the day I flew into India to meet
him) was a big proponent of Sufi-lore (though he was a not a Sufi himself,
he was a Mystic). I deeply deeply appreciate the question Don asked you
about Arabic culture and LO's that spurred your comments in return (see
below). I have interspesed my comments among yours, taking liberties as a
culture genralist and hoping you will set me "right" if I mis-represent
Arabic culture in any way. I have numbered your points to order my
thinking in response to what you have offered:
Question:
> what concepts in Arabic culture best correspond to
> the
> notion of LO?
>
1) Terje:
Well if I look at the 5 disciplines as parts, just right off the top of my
head, then I can find relations that have deep roots in Arabic culture.
Not the least mental modelling and personal awareness (these concepts are
particularly found in sufi literature).
Sajeela:
I agree whole heartedly. My spiritual teacher gave so many discourses on
sufism that two volumes were published. The one I have is called "The
Wisdom of the Sands Volume One". A Sufi story from that volume that
illucidates both mental models and personal awareness is the following
abridged version:
A Wise One, a veritable wonder of an age, taught their disciples from a
seemingly inexhaustable store of wisdom. The Wise One attributed their
knowledge to a thick tome stored in a place of honour in their room.
No one was allowed to open this volume.
When the Wise One died, the closest disciples ran to the book, anxious to
read what it contained. They were surprised, confused and disappointed
when they found writing on only one page!
they became still more bewildered when they tried to pentrate the meaning
of the wors which met their eyes"
"When you realize the difference between the container and the content,
you will have knowledge"
2) Terje:
Systems concepts are also discussed, but more at a philosophical level
about causes . I suspect there is something to find about dialogue (team
learning) as well, although the Arabs focused primarily on debate and
logic, emphasizing the importance of debating to get to the truth rather
than winning.
Sajeela:
As I understand Arab culture, there is a completely different orientation
to time then Euro-western culture; a poly-temporal orientation, if you
will. Arab culture has a natural attrition for the collective, I believe,
which corresponds to an understandimg of poly-temporality. For example:
one does not make discrete appointments off in a room alone somewhere, but
rather, allows many people to come and go in a conversation; to
particpate. Life is a very collective process. Therefore the concept of
team comes more naturally perhaps in a different "brand name" of "family"
or "tribe", but none-the-less collective and therefore team-like.
I believe what you refer to Terje as debate is much closer perhaps to
Dialogue (in the Bohm sense of the word) in some ways, as opposed to
Euro-Western concepts (based on Platonic precepts of logic) where one
seeks a single universal Truth (with a capital T, which leads to
fundamental deductionist logic) as opposed to allowing for many possible
single truthS (ending with a capital S, leading to Constuctionist or
emerging and ever changing truth).
3) Terje:
So if the 5 disciplines of Senge's model are condsidered separately, one
can certainly find elements of OL. Also one could look at attributes of
leaders and leadership philosophy. Interesting parralells would be made.
Arab history is full of examples to choose from. Ranging from the humble
yet firm leadership of the early khalifas who denied themselves luxury to
the extravagances of certain kings of the Abbasid and Ummawi dynasties.
You said: It seems to me that this is a culture rich in science
andphilosophy; what do they have to offer to help paint the rich picture
of LO/OL? In other words, rather than trying to map our concept into the
Arabic language, look within the Arabic culture for concepts that could
shed light on the term "Learning organization". Personally, I think this
could be a fascinating contribution to this list.)
Sajeela:
Rich beyond a shadow of doubt! I would LOVE to hear from many cultures in
this way!!! I am starving for other perspectives besides essentially
traditional Euro-Western conditioned ones, which seem to dominate this
list-serve.
4) Terje:
Finally, I think it might be an answer for your first question above. You
are right, and thanks for the idea, I would love to do research on this,
but this one I would consider for my Phd, not my masters. Classical
Arabic literature, which would be very important in this topic in order to
avoid mere imported ideas, is rather enormous. I wouldn't even know where
to begin to cover such a topic at this moment. Actuallyit wouldn't just
be a Phd topic, it would be a profession!
Sajeela:
Beloved Terje, perhaps you could start with Rumi and other Arabic poets!!!
There are so many beautiful beautiful examples!
5) Terje:
> Meanwhile, if you would like me to elaborate more about these aspects
> of Arabic culture feel free to ask! (I promise to be much faster this
> time).
> Terje
Sajeela:
I always love to hear other cultural perspectives that shed light on
Euro-western ideas that seem to make sense in a universal humanitarian
way! Thus, i hope to hear your perspective and others' from anywhere in
the world that can help shed light on so-called cutting edge thinking.
late night tip tap on the keyboard,
Sajeela
Sajeela Moskowitz Ramsey
OD Specialist/Culture Generalist
2432 Villanova Drive/Vienna, VA. 22180
703 573 7050/ SajeelaCore @Juno.com
_________
PS - where is your last name from? it does not sound Arabic to me.
--Sajeela M ramsey <sajeelacore@juno.com>
Learning-org -- Hosted by Rick Karash <Richard@Karash.com> Public Dialog on Learning Organizations -- <http://www.learning-org.com>
"Learning-org" and the format of our message identifiers (LO1234, etc.) are trademarks of Richard Karash.