Self-organising complex marketing systems LO26730

From: Gavin Ritz (
Date: 05/26/01

Replying to LO26709 --

Hi At, Rick,

Rick I see that you are doing a presentation at the latest systems
thinking conference. I would love to come but at this stage have too many

AM de Lange wrote:

> Dear Organlearners,
> Gavin Ritz <> writes:
> >Hi Chris and org'ies
> and our host comments:
> >[org'ies?? This is getting out of hand! ..Rick]
> Greetings to both of you and all other "youngies" of mind,
> When I first read this delightful creation of Gavin, I cried out with
> laughter.

Well it was supposed to be endearing, but now I understand why Rick to
offense. No offense meant and for those who felt offended I apologize.

[Host's Note: No offense taken. I was making a joke... Org'ies is pretty
close to Orgies, and I got a laugh at that. Once again, we see how easy it
is for humor to be misunderstood in this virtual conversation. ..Rick]

> Are we looking at a self-organising system here?
> I have explained some time ago how we make diminutives in my mother tongue
> Afrikaans by adding the suffix "-(tj)ie" and then getting rid of any
> intricate clusters of consonants. Gavintjie

I take gavinpie if that one is still around.

> will stay like that, but
> Ricktjie will be simplified into Rickie. I have given examples how we use
> the diminutive to express deeper feelings such as endearment or contempt.

Interesting I never thought that the meaning could be like this. This is
another fantastic example of frame of reference. (or point of view- we
place meaning on this from our point of view, some of the main reasons why
rapport is broken)

> Well, Gavintjie did just that, summarised as
> . "org" + "-(tj)ie" => "org'ie" (plural "org'ies")
> Rickie took up these deeper feelings with a mocking challenge!
> Well done, you both have made my day and, I think, of many other fellow
> learners.
> Marketing the treasures of our languages leads to sheer pleasures.
> Unlike the word "org'ies", the word "orgies" is the plural for orgy. It
> comes from the Greek word "orge" which meant "wrath", i.e. an "indulgence
> into something of which destructions are the outcome". But the word "orge"
> also meant a "secret rite so as to obtain something mystical". This dual
> meaning of the word shows that the Greeks tried to articulate with it what
> we will today describe with the concept of an "ordinate bifurcation" --
> something which results into either a "constructive emergence" or a
> "destructive immergence" at the edge of chaos.

That is really interesting because I meant it that "org" was for
organizations and org'ies was the festive orgy of learning. Which was not
meant to be destructive but of a frenzy.

> What is most striking to me, even though I know too little of the Greek
> etymology yet, is the root "or" in "or-ge" as well as in for example
> "or-ganon"=organ(=intrument). In the latter "or-ganon" the "ganon" seems
> to have meant "cluster" so that "or-ganon" refered to a cluster of "or"s.
> Here are some Greek words beginning with "or":
> "oros"=mountain, "orinos"=hill, "ornis"=hen, "orphanos"=fatherless,
> "ortrizo"=early, "orgilos"=angry, "orthos"=upright, "orgeomai"=orchestra
> and "oregomai"=desire.
> How much is this "or" related to the "ar" of art which I contemplated some
> time ago? The "ar" was that ancient sound symbolising that an effective
> contact has been made. If "or" means the same, then "organon" means a
> cluster of effective contacts like cells forming an organ and organs
> forming an organism. What wealth is not locked up in the word
> "formingness"?
> It also makes me think of the Latin words "oro"=pray and "aurum"=gold. To
> pray ("oro") on a mountain ("oros") early ("ortrizo") the morning or
> evening when the sky is golden ("aurelius") is so much different from
> praying elsewhere. One can smell in the breeze what comes from beyond the
> horizon (openness), perceive many different things (otherness), appreciate
> tiny things in the valley below (spareness), connect with heaven above
> (fruitfulness), see very far where heaven and earth join (wholeness), feel
> the solid mountain carrying the valley at its foot (sureness) and wish to
> fly like an eagle passing by (liveness). Soon the words of the prayer are
> silenced by thoughts too graceful for words -- the becoming order out of
> chaos.
> It is "or" and "ar" all the way! How can anyone say that praying on a
> mountain is not a scientific thing to do? Is "order out of chaos" not also
> a topic for science? Is this not the very issue through which science and
> art finally can become whole again?

How interesting thanks for that At.


Gavin Ritz <>

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