Is the Kingdom of Heaven a LO? LO29842

From: AM de Lange (
Date: 01/24/03

Replying to LO29813 --

Dear Organlearners,

Glebe Stcherbina <> writes:

>Thank you for sharing your thoughts on a very sensitive
>subject. However, I ask myself my, why should religion
>be such a sensitive subject and why should one ask for
>forgiveness when broaching the subject?

Greetings dear Glebe,

I asked forgiveness in advance because i may have written things in an
unfitting manner, something which i wish to avoid, but might not have

Religion is a very senstive subject. I have a two volume treatise on most
of the wars of the world since history was recorded. It is an eye opener
to see how many wars had been fought on religious grounds.

>No matter what religion or belief you may have, your
>"superior being" may not have political correctness when
>it comes to discussing religion. In fact the majority of
>religions encourage open discussion. How else can be
>understand the other person's point of view.

True and false ;-) Almost every religion has its fundamentalists. They
usually avoid open discussion and rather try to enforce their outlook upon

>I do have some observations:
>(1) If Christ was not born on December 25 (the Eastern
>Orthodox celebrate His Birth on January 7) when was he
>really born? June and July may have been warmer months
>or perhaps the Birth of Christ provided the warmth in
>December which the shepherds and their flocks needed. A
>miracle birth can also lead to other miracles. It depends
>upon one's mindset. Weather patterns may have changed
>over 2000 years.

Weather patterns may change, but a fundamental change in seasons is not
likely. The earth's rotation axis has to take a new direction and this
would unlash incredible geological distortions. Anyway, i mentioned
June/July rather than 25th December to invite fellow learners into
critical thinking. Considering the Kingdom of Heaven (which was formulated
almost 2000 years ago) as a possible LO (which was formulated a dozen
years ago) is an immense jump through time and culture. It requires
critical thinking on exactly what is being done.

>(2) Messages on Team Learning are stated in the Bible but
>not where you think they reside.

As i wrote, i thought they would occur in the four gospels. It is only in
the epistels where they occur profusely. This was a great surprise to me.

>(3) At has also demonstrated how a local parish can turn
>itself into a caring community. If a caring community can turn
>itself into a caring world then I think we may have half our
>battles won without firing a shot in anger.

I often wonder why people want to take a hard line by defending themselves
offensively. Why do they think that violence will solve their problems? Is
the solving of problems not rather an important activity of learning?

>(4) Religion does provide a platform for individual learning
>as well as team learning which leads to organizational learning.

I am not sure that i understand you in this observation because of the
word "platform". Please explain it to me.

>(5) At mentioned by At, the issues in Africa where a
>leader wants to keep on going without looking at the
>big picture (that is my interpretation) for their nation
>may have an influence on the direction that nation will
>take: the road to Poverty or the road to Salvation.

If you mean by "without looking at the big picture" a lack of wholeness,
then i think that you are spot on. Since African nations did not have
written languages until colonialism began, there is no recorded history so
that we do not know whether this lack of wholeness was for millenia the
case. In my opinion this lack of wholeness began with colonialisation.
Colonies were demarcated arbritraly, often cutting nations in two. When
one part of a nation has to follow the rules, language and culture of one
colonial power while the other part has to follow different rules,
langauge and culture of another colonial power, how can wholeness survive?

>(6) The knowledge of many is far greater than the knowledge
>of one. Except for the superior being you believe in, if one has
>that belief in the first instance.

For me the greatness of the knowledge of the many has to become revealed
by way of dialogue and not by depositing/withdrawing impersonal
information. I was surprised, but also happy, that this had been a main
theme in Benhamin Franklin's autobiography. He always tried to get people
together and let them talk on important issues, even contencious ones.

>(7) Harmony can be brought by love, and as At
>mentioned, love yourself first then I say that love
>will flow to others.

I agree. But love does not emerge automatically. It is something that we
have to learn like anything else. And it is not as simple as some people
assume it to be. The description of love by Paul in 1 Cor 13 is for me the
best in explaining the complexity of love.

>My response is not to extend the debate on religious
>beliefs per se, but to show how religion is part of your
>daily learning.

Thank you.

During the years of apartheid, a particular religion (Calvinism) was used
very much to organise and manage all walks of life. Now, in post apartheid
South Africa, the pendulum has almost reached the opposite side. Religions
are avoided and denied as far as possible in public life. Too much
secularism is as devastating as too much of a religion. I think that
neither should a religion be used to control the lives of all people and
nor should all religions of people be controlled or denied. Medling with
any religion always upset civilised life. Again i have to refer to
Franklin who was very clear on this point. Leave every religion alone to
establish its own future as well as contribute to the virtues of the

With care and best wishes,


At de Lange <> Snailmail: A M de Lange Gold Fields Computer Centre Faculty of Science - University of Pretoria Pretoria 0001 - Rep of South Africa

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