Creating a Passion for Learning LO17432

Winfried Dressler (
Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:17:34 +0100

Replying to LO17417 --

Steve wrote:
>Billions of people struggle, indeed: and the grand schemes for solving the
>problems of poverty, like Marxism, have proved to false. I sasee no
>evidence that entropy will solve our problems: it has failed to do so up
>to this point.

Entropy production is not a simple solution, nor are the 7 essentialities
simple recipe. On the contrary they are breathtaking complex. And I do not
judge in this way, because I am trapped in At's way of thinking, but
because it feels (I cannot say really more in the moment) relevant for
many of my own experiences - they become connected without being reduced
one dimensionally.

Entropy doesn't do anything. Entropy production doesn't solve the problems
either. The point is the bifurcation arising: Is there a free will to make
a choice? Will new order emerge or not?

Watch the consumption of natural resources, while the focus is on making
money. The resources are used to create value for humans. And how is the
value calculated? However it is, the original resources are valued exactly
zero. They are just taken for free. The most important resources is stored
energy (oil and gas). Energy can only be stored on high order level. Order
cannot emerge without entropy production. We are living by consuming the
entropy production of the past several million if not billion years within
two or three centuries. This is also breathtaking, but in a completely
different way. Is there a free choice in it? Who is taking the

There is so much high order in the world up to us humans. We may be the
highest order emergents in this world, including the power of mind. Saying
"entropy [let me add: production] has failed up to this point" proves,
that you have not the slightest idea what entropy production means. One
may question, whether entropy production is sufficient, but it is
absolutely necessary for any order to emerge.

Entropy production worked great up to now and now we are consuming it
without even saying "Thank you".

Please understand the emotions in this issue. The question is, whether
there is a free choice emerging to be "the warden of nature" instead of
being "the engineer of a machine" as At worte before. Whenever At's
wording is interpreted in a way of engineering (grand schemes, measuring,
essentialities as tools etc.), it is an interpretation from the engineer
viewpoint or paradigma. Any of those will fail, as you have stated
correctly. But I am sure, it is not what At is talking about.
Misunderstanding can only be avoided if the ideas are communicated in a
way, that makes no sense anymore on an engineering level. (Koans of Zen
Buddhism for example)

Yet I enjoy your comments, Steve. They are creating entropic force.

Best regards,


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