Systems Thinking and Personality Types LO22639

AM de Lange (
Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:04:57 +0200

Replying to LO22627 --

Dear Organlearners.

Andrew Campona < > writes:

>Dorothy Martin wrote on the above subject,
>>I can only re-emphasize that the Myers-Briggs Type
>>Indicator is a PREFERENCE instrument. Anyone can
>>easily make it indicate whatever he or she wishes. It is
>>only useful to the individual, and to others, if the individual
>>is completely honest about their preferences on each
>>indicator item. IT IS NOT A TEST. Therefore, it is difficult
>>to use in a work setting--in hiring, firing, etc. It is quite
>>useful if individuals are struggling in any setting, and want
>>to find a setting--work or otherwise--that fits their
>>preferences; which makes life more pleasant for all.
>- -Those words, "It is quite useful if individuals are struggling
>in any setting, and want to find a setting -work or otherwise-
>that fits their preferences, which makes life pleasant for all."
>That 'setting' would be a kind of heaven, would it not?

Greetings Andrew,

Is this not what Learning Organisations are about, providing such
settings, a "kind of heaven" as you out it so eloquently?

>How many on this list have seen or experienced the negative
>results of ill handled and inept intervention via models of quasi
>scientific 'analytical systems' that are apt to quickly dissect
>and re-present data but are almost completely unable and
>unprepared to re-integrate through the appropriate and
>CARING facilitation of what Jung knew to be the fundament
>of human development, - imagination, creativity and the
>integrative effect of symbolisation?

Yes, when love as agape gets degraded into eros by undoing its
one-to-many-mapping for a one-to-one-mapping purpose, we can expect caring
to hit the dust -- for people to use Jung's ideas in such a manner that he
would turn in his grave.

>So to be 'pointy'; as one contributor asks us to be for a moment,
>I ask this.

Perhaps it is to count our words ;-)

>Who among any can BEANCOUNT the INFINITE that this
>above EARTHLY REASON represents? (I mean, really,
>'who the H*** wants to?)

Andrew, any mathematician worth his/her salt, will tell you that counting
is a one-to-one-mapping and explain why. Thus, in a one-to-many-mapping,
only one of the output (one of all the "many") can be be severed to
correspond countably with the one of the input. So which one will it be?
Does anyone wants to make the bet that it is not money!

>What about we give people space/place to become that
>which they can, to do their thing.

Yes, yes, yes.

Do you know what they will then do? Sing spontaneous songs of praise to
the Infinite Spirit. My granddaughter Jessica does it after I have
provided her with such a space/place so that for couple of hours she does
not have to defend herself against "spiritual raping" while exploring her
personality creatively.

Again, is this not what Learning Organisations are about?

Some people have the notion that Learning Organisations are about
"learning" (sometimes they will even call it "knowledge transfer") and its
outcome "knowledge". It means nothing to them that LOs are pushed from
below (by entropy production and thus) the creativity of its members while
guided from above by the its higher order emergents. If the notions and
ignorance of these people eventually become characteristics of LOs, then
it is high time to call the rose by any other name.

>"Imagination is more important that intelligence." Einstein
>- -Which is lucky for people like me

One-to-many-love (agape) is more important than imagination and
intelligence. Agape is the greatest of all, as St Paul once exclaimed in
rapture. If we depend on the Fortuna (the goddess of luck) for agape, will
our lives not be an eternal damnation? It is for us to make the
difference creatively and not for others to trust their luck with us.

Best wishes


At de Lange <> Snailmail: A M de Lange Gold Fields Computer Centre Faculty of Science - University of Pretoria Pretoria 0001 - Rep of South Africa

Learning-org -- Hosted by Rick Karash <> Public Dialog on Learning Organizations -- <>