Replying to LO24365 --
One can go around in circles but I do not think this dialogue has too much
further interest for me because if one is so certain of ones point of view
then yours At must me the one map that describes all the territory from
earth to heaven you seem to be unopen to any other experiences. Wisdom
after all is the ability to see things from ones own point from anothers
and from the whole worlds'.
Your responses are at most long winded covered in metaphors and you seemed
to want to do a lot of telling how it is. This ceases to become a learning
experience for myself. Most of your concepts are fine but as soon as you
say it is essential then you have already decided what is right and wrong
what is the truth and what is false. Most of your writing contains the
motivations I was talking about. Nothing suggests that there is anything
essential at all but from your own point of view and that of Prigogine. If
I stand back and ignore the content of your messages it contains some of
that arrogance and aggression, a pity rather. The teacher telling the
pupil, its my way or the highway.
I will point you to some of the basics of psychoanalytical thought.
Kohut and Kernberg there are too many to mention actually, have a look at
object relations theory, ego psychology etc. you will see very different
points of view these people who have worked closely with mankind's mental
Now if you want a real different point of view try this: A H. Almaas, The
point of existence, The Pearl Beyond price. This one will shock you if the
hold the essentialities so dear. Try this one if you dare The VOID.
You are a philosophical man then read Ernst Beckers' Denial of Death. the
1974 Pulizter prize book. Maybe there is more than mans terror of death.
I am aware many of your thoughts are intermingled with Prigogine and his
concepts but if you can look at another horison you will see a different
perspective at a different angle with a different colour.
For even another radical perspective if you can read German, Wolfgang
Mewes Energy theory. This will change even the most diehards view of the
I am not saying that I hold any of these points of view dear but you will
see that there are so many points and so varied. The map is not the
territory. This was stated so eloquently by Korzybski in 1945 in Science
and Sanity. Try reading Wendall Johnsons 1945 book People in Quandaries,
His concept of Idealism disease would be very interesting to you. Both are
in Semantics. NLP was founded from these simple concepts. If you have read
some of Grinder & Bandlers books you would be quite shocked to see that
this type of modeling has some very different concepts on how humans act.
I still have not observed one human action that cannot be explained in
very simple motivational terms and its aggregated form POWER and
dependence. I would further like to point out that I am a practitioner not
a theorist I apply many concepts on a daily basis with people assessing
with feedback and dialogue with hundreds of individuals over the years. I
need stuff that helps people to live healthier fuller lives hence I will
go on reading and trying and practicing and I will use whatever works.
Whether it is NLP, Ego psychology, object relations theory, motivational
models, semantics, systems theory, being or becoming, cybernetics, any
religion, Chaos theory, CAS, Energy theory, EKS, TOC, philosophy, rational
behaviour theory, gestalt theory, GST, Living Systems theory etc etc, etc,
Good luck with your search for the truth. Maybe it is out there.
Gavin Ritz <email@example.com>
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