What is THE problem? LO26885

From: AM de Lange (amdelange@gold.up.ac.za)
Date: 06/25/01

Replying to LO26838 --

Dear Organlearners,

Jan Lelie <janlelie@wxs.nl> writes:

>At, you remarked on a correspondence between my
>operational definition of problems (unbalance between
>expectations and reality) and Goethe's ideas on Truth,
>Self and MetaMorphosis. (# It's just me, myself and I #,
>Soul2Soul). Who am i to question Goethe? Definitely
>Goethe or not-Goethe! I agree with your / his remarks
>and your conclusions.

Greetings dear Jan,

Thank you for using the quote from Goethe in such a constrcutive sense.
Goethe was the last person to stress his authority. As for myself, I let
his thoughts question mine and question his thoughts with my own.

>However i did not think that the difference between
>the Self and the External (= truth) is a problem, i
>stated that as an operational definition i assume
>that the truth is a problem. I think, and i think you
>agree, that problems are THE truth.

There is a very important point which you make and that is the
"operational definition" rather than the "structural definition". Some
time we ought to have a LO-dialogue on it.

The Bible also has an operation definition for truth. "The truth sets you
free." In other words, truth is not only a being, but a becoming.

You have in Dutch just like in Afrikaans the word "voorwerp"=object. The
"voor"=front and "werp"=throw. Yet we deal in our languages with this
"voorwerp" as the Englsih object of which we cannot imagine how it will
"throw itself out in front". In other words, we somehow lack thinking like
the Greeks of a "voorwerp"=object having the potential of extending itself
forward as a "problema", i.e. a "being" with a potential "becoming".

Goethe's viewpoint on truth shocked every philosopher who had the Roman
Mental Model that truth has a rigid structure. Yet it took almost another
century before G Frege could use this insight of Goethe to present the
first symbolic version of Logic with a "becoming" in it.

Perhaps the lack of "becoming" (in liveness) is THE problem. But perhaps
THE problem is the lack in any of the other six 7Es too.

For example, when you wrote:

>Years and years ago i assimilated a remark
>from Chris Argyris that many problems (still)
>exist because we:
>- have been taught to tell the truth EXCEPT
>when we think that the truth may hurt
>- have been taught to tell the truth and act
>as if the former is not the case
>- have been taught to cover up the former rules.

it made me think of the lack of openness.

Thyank you for your thoughts.

With care and best wishes


At de Lange <amdelange@gold.up.ac.za> Snailmail: A M de Lange Gold Fields Computer Centre Faculty of Science - University of Pretoria Pretoria 0001 - Rep of South Africa

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