Mendel, Complexity, Spirit, Man, Bateson, Einstein, etc. LO27819

From: Jan Lelie (
Date: 02/12/02

Replying to LO27795 --

Hello (plex?) learners,

My eye was caught and'rewn to a title with complexity, Bateson and without
Darwin. A relief to find him in the full title. Charles is my middle name,
but i assume no reference to any other person but my great-grandfather
(not a Darwin) was intended. None the less, meaning in the eye of the
beholder is what our world is about.

My perspective on prospective complexity: such is life and is becoming
sucher and sucher all the time.

We simply live in a complex world - or better - an inherently paradoxical
world. A paradox is a self-referential, cycle of statements of a vicious
nature. I think. I am. I think, therefor I am; I think that i am, I am
thinking I am. Who is I, who thinks? No better name than "I be am,
thinking machines". Or business machines, but thinking IS our business.
The paradox of being and becoming evolves into ever more intricate
(complex) entities.

Self-awareness, self-reference was a recent addition, valuable as it
increased the "Eigenvalue" of surviving. A conscious being - and every
living being is conscious, there would be no point in living it it wasn't
- will invest more in survival. And after some time, self-consciousness,
("Eigenwaan" would be a nice Dutch / South African word, %-) ) will be
discovered, will evolve, must emerge. As sure as 1 and 1 makes at least 3
(so it goes with living beings), the process becomes self-referential once
again. So the price, the value for living goes up again. A kind of
inflation: complexity comes at a price. If you want to play, you have to
raise the stakes. And after self-consciousness has filled the brain,
reaching every part of the mind and involving more and more time, it will
spill over and start communicating. The simple systems of warning (Wolf!
Wolf!), survival again, is displaced with a complex system of signs,
language, speak, talk. But for some time it will remain close to survival
("If you do not belief your mother, Wolf will come and eat you"). We're
only beginning to emancipate.

I think - i am - that Adams, Bateson, Confucius, Darwin, Einstein, Freud,
Goethe and Guatama, Hegel, I, Jung, Kant, the old master Laozi, Marx,
Nietzsche - still kicking -, Ockham, Plato, al Quirqisani (i had to do
some research, never heard his name before), Spinoza, - woof woof, who
expected Stephan Themerson here -, the Upanisads, Veda's Wittgenstein, X
and You, Zhoang Zhou (men seem to need a lot of liberation) and all our
fellow learners - are all part in a complex process of emergence, a roads
of development of as well the self as the group or community. As the group
is more complex than the individual human being - the future is in the
group, the organization. But before we become bounded again, we'll have to
liberate ourselves from the group, or rather, to experience what is and
what is not ours.

I agree with the reversal of the metaphores of creation and liberation, of
any metaphore by the way, because it tells us how we experience the price
of our survival: creating implies destruction, reality is part of the
dream. Mutate metaphores, it is cheaper and less destructive. For
instance: as the American people are discovering themselves, with all the
nasty nationalistic (us) or patriotistic (them) pump-and-circumstances,
with a little help from their friends, they might discover new ways of
living with groups: new metaphores. After making all the old mistakes,
making mistakes is what learning is all about. Carry on walking but use
the stick softly. Were did i went wrong?

Love, peace and understanding,

Jan wrote:

> Full Title is/was
> Mendel, Complexity, Spirit, Man, Bateson, Einstein, Darwin, My Musical
> Scanner, Uncle Tom Cobbley and All and All...
> A position of simplicity relative to complexity;-), a perspective


With kind regards - met vriendelijke groeten,

Jan Lelie

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