Socially constructed war LO30017

From: Jan Lelie (
Date: 03/24/03

Replying to LO30012 --

Thank you Gijs, deer reeder,

War - and Peace - seem to me social constructs, because they're perceived
by people as "good" or "bad", depending on the position they have. To me
there not only there seems to be no absolute good nor no absolute bad, but
also no valid reasoning based on things being either good or bad. Can we
find another logic that doesnot depend on me - or you - taking up a
position and that doesnot invoke a power beyond our control - like go,
fate, destiny or luck? I'm questioning the logic that is being used.

Intuitively, i'd say that there is no peace without war, no good without
bad, no light without darkness. I think that there is no life without
death and that life is not the denial of death, nor there is death without
life and is death is not the denial of life. To me, there is no learning
without mistakes but making mistakes doesn't have to be learning. This
different logic, ways and means, doesn't replace the current logic: i
suppose that the current constructions, the logics currently deployed,
will prove to be just a special case. I do not want to deny the currrent

To me History proves at least one thing: that our current logic leads to
more of the same: again and again we go through the same "moves". We're
perfoming a random walk in two dimensions - so we'll visit every situation
again and again, without being able to predict the exact route, nor the
time between two revisits. Isn't there a third dimension? What does it
look like.

Kind regards,

Jan Lelie

Gijs Houtzagers wrote:

>Hi Jan,
>You are quite right. I think that in a modern society there are other ways
>available than war. Howevere sometimes I hesitate because the result after
>a war can be more positieve than before (thinking of Afghanistan), but
>that is perhaps the result of the "western" concept what is better. For
>religious moslim fanatics it is probably worse.
>This war is wrong because it doesn't fit the social contract we have
>agreeed upon: only the UN, by means of the security counsil can go for war
>and I consider that misfit a very dangerous situation. In fact if you have
>more power than the other ones and you want something from somebody you
>can get it.
>This calls for actions that were not possible in the cold war and will
>provide scenarios we cannot guess. Look for instance now what is happening
>with the invasion of Turkey in northern Iraq (get the Kurds).
>I have studied History in the past and know something of military things.
>I think the current situation will become more unsure than the period of
>the cold war.


Drs J.C. Lelie (Jan, MSc MBA) facilitator mind@work

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