pART two LO30390

Date: 07/18/03

[Linked to pART one LO30389 by your host..]

pART two

(Rick, There is a PPt I have appended, that i created this morning for
Kari and fellow LO'er Dan Chay, ....Thanks)

[Host's Note: Andrew's PPt file is at


I have written in a way appropriate to set my heart in motion. This is
the way i have come to understand a great deal of the ''discourse'',
''dialogue'', ''democratic (sic) process'' through and by any media
concerning, only for example the Iraq conflict. It is predicated it seems
to me on an inability to ''see'' the ''possibility space'' opened up by
Meister Eckhart "Only the hand that erases can write the true thing." ~
Meister Eckhart I am acutely aware of the frailty of my own learning and
my capacity to "explicate" it, so it was with relief that today by chance
or accident ;-) I came upon this, created by a better mind than mine, for
sure ;-)
"-- And if ther be enythyng that displese hem, I preye hem also that they
arrette it to the defaute of myn unkonnynge, and nat to my wyl that wolde
ful fayne have says bettre if I hadde had konnynge."
Erasure is sometimes a delay, a pause in what seems to be happening, I want
to keep inside myself the notion that this erasure, this pause, is indeed
"pregnant" with possibility.
" -- Andrew, Thank you for sharing -- You sent me the slide (a few weeks
ago) just as I was grading some graduate journals and I neglected to sit
with it until this morning. Perfect for today!!
Barry Brownstein"
And through these kinds ;-) of disclosures ;-) at a distance ;-)
(Electromagnetic or t'otherwise ;-) i can share: ''Although they have no
ultimate grounds for doing so, all beings think in terms of 'i' and
'mine.' Because of this, they conceive of 'other,' fixing on it as
something alien, although this too is unfounded. Aside from being merely
mental imputations, 'i' and 'other' are totally unreal. They are both
illusory. Moreover, when the non-existence of 'i' is realized, the notion
of 'other' also disappears, for the simple reason that the two terms are
posited only in relation to each other. Just as it is impossible to cut
the sky in two with a knife, likewise, when the space-like quality of
ego-less-ness is realized, it is no longer possible to make a separation
between 'i' and 'other,' and there arises an attitude of wanting to
protect others as oneself, and to protect all that belongs to them with
the same care as if it were one's own.--''
And with that partial wisdom i approach in a meandering fashion the subject
by invitation.

[following suggestions of F. Lucatelli (Lucerne "TIME/SPACE Conference"
Presenter & Professor of Geometry et al.), & an attempt to simplify this
often, enigmatic subject, not of physics, but of the many "biosciences"]

"TIME" has two "types." The first, involves a sense of duration between
two successive measurements "at" clock(s), in a "past-present- future,"
linear mode ("McTaggart A-Series," or "conventional time ct"). The second
involves a sense of duration in a "late-early-late" cyclical, orthogonal,
+/-, "spin" mode ("Rhythm Based Time," or "KitadaTime KT").

These two, temporal types can exist as real, scalar labels, almost
anywhere in our known world, including within biologically active minds,
or non biological extensions thereof. "Mass and/or energy vectors" can
transport said labels into mind but, by new definition, they do so only in
"One's Present," or in "One's Now TIME." These special and seemingly novel
vectors, which can temporarily embody scalar labels of many sorts, are
called "Mental Vector Protocols" (or "MVP's"). They now appear to be,
possibly, the "Most Valuable Players" in our "Game of Life." MVP's were
developed at the "Lucerne International TIME Conference, 2003," to satisfy
two concepts: 1) their importance, and 2) their ease of recall.


Courtesy of peter (small 'p') Beamish...
Peter is a CETA research scientist, of some thirty years standing (Trinity
Bay)...and pretty much every day for some years now i have struggled with
a form of dyslexia to improvise his meanings in my own MPV. Though, i have
to acknowledge, even that may be an error.
In my imagination ;-) Now i tend to see 'questions and answers' both here,
in democratic institutions, schools, colleges, courtrooms and where-ever
else we sophisticate meet like ''bullets''. i have always feared
questions, whether at school, at college, or at work ...because they
always seemed to me to pre-suppose an (one) answer.
Snip into memory...
When i was an infant I used to lay on my back and watch clouds in the
sky...and if i put objects into my paintings they would be flying
creatures in the sky. If, when i (had been;-) an infant i had met, say,
Eleanor Rosch, then she and i, the infant, would have got on fine, because
she knew that '' if you depict a bird you must give it room to fly"...i
cannot imagine a sky without a bird, nor a bird without a sky. But that is
just my nature. nothing personal ;-)...
''Just as it is impossible to cut the sky in two with a knife.''
In my imagination ;-) Now i am trying to erase the ''border'' between Iraq
and Iran, and i am trying to recall in my conscious mind the names of the
places they were before they were the names they are now.
It is tempting because of Penrose (Pen;-) Rose;-) in my ''essos'' today to
speak now of ''electromagnetic fields'' and the ''transportation of
energy'' via them...i desist, Dan.
In my imagination if have gone to a place in my mind twenty five years ago
when a ''native American;-)'' figure emerged into an abstract field - for no
reason. i suspect an matter, never mind ;-)
I have to move closer to David Bohm...i am going to use someone who actually
knew him, dialogued with him...loved him i suspect. Then i am going to quote
Bohm while he was knowing, dialoging with and loved ( i expect) this author,
" Whorf concluded that, just as it is possible for mathematicians and
physicists to have perfectly consistent descriptions of geometries that
are non Euclidian, so, too, societies can have radically different, yet
perfectly consistent, accounts of the universe. In the case of the Hopi
this was a worldview in which separable time and space, as we know them in
Newtonian terms does not exist. What Whorf called the ''manifest'' or
''objective'' and the ''manifesting'', or ''subjective'' take their place.
''Manifest'' means all things accessible to the senses, without
distinction or division between past and present -- for all lie within the
field...of the manifest.
"The term ''Manifesting'' includes what we in our worldview refer to as
being ''mental'' (maybe that should be ''being mental'' ;-) as well as
what lies in the future. The Hopi make no distinction between the mental
and the future" - "Such categories do not exist in their language. Within
Hopi this ''manifesting'' refers to those things that are in the heart,
and not only in the hearts of The People but also in the hearts of
animals, trees, plants and rocks."
To private note with Claus Otto Scharmer ("Presencing"...By implication
;-) also my brief but most welcome exchanges 'SBC' and 'RBC' with his
colleague and partner Joseph Jawworski (Synchronicity) " So, what is it
you are saying: that we (you) are staying in (on the ground of?) the
split rather than on one of the two sides?--otto"<> "dear otto, splits
give rise to blooms, blooms give rise to our perceptions of realities and
realities give rise to love." (PPt) Back to Sacred Vibrations
;-)...''There is a notion of process whereby the ''manifesting'' enters
the ''manifest'' and, at the edge ;-) of this process, the Hopi is able to
talk about things that are on the verge ;-) of coming into manifestation
(URL # 15 DoL)...Possibly the leading edge of ''manifesting'' could be
compared to that split second ;-) of no return aka ( a bifurcation at the
point of chaos, de Lange ''becoming --stopped-- at the point of being"
Campbell;-) Imagine what it would be like to..."Snip
Snip forward into reflection.
The above i learned only today, i discovered the 'information' in a bookshop,
i intended to purchase Penrose (and did) and then as i was walking out i saw
the title of another book, and asked to be allowed that (on my National
debt;-) also, to take away and to learn from.
That text points now more directly to Bohm. "Neils Bohr pointed out the
way in which our language predisposes us to employ concepts that are
entirely inappropriate to a quantum world. Bohm took this further, in
favour of processes and activities in a continuous movement of
''unfolding'' and ''enfolding'' (splits and blooms;)-)...Moreover, his
reality is not confined ;-) to matter but extends to thoughts, feelings,
and emotions unfolding within the brain and body."
" The Cat Sat on The Mat" or "Popping Wind" ;-)

I am appealing to the faculty if imagination, artistic imagination that
lays within everyone who is prepared to 'let go' or aka, play in the field
of a 'creative collapse'...simply put, place your own tempo into the text.
I have mine...
John 21:15-19
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of
John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you
know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my lambs."
A second time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" He said
to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Tend my

He said to him the third time, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter
felt hurt because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" And he
said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus
said to him, "Feed my sheep.


Very truly, I tell you, when you were younger, you used to fasten your own
belt and to go wherever you wished. But when you grow old, you will
stretch out your hands, and someone else will fasten a belt around you and
take you where you do not wish to go." (He said this to indicate the kind
of death by which he would glorify God.) After this he said to him,
"Follow me."

"Thoughts die the moment they are embodied by words." Schopenhauer.

I have retreated from David Bohm, I am with Penrose, who is with Hadamard
who is with Mozart as if ;-) speaking of the new emergent creative

"Then my soul is on fire. The work grows; I keep expanding it, conceiving
it more and more clearly until I have the entire composition finished in
my head though it may be long. Then my mind seizes it as a glance of my
eye a beautiful picture...It does not come to me successively, with parts
worked out in detail, as they will later on, but in its entirety that my
imagination lets me hear it." Penrose refers to this otherwise, by linking
Poincare and many others on the sciences, including Einstein and calling
it "globality''.
Einstein; "The words or the language, as written or spoken, do not play
any role in my mechanism of thought. The physical entities which seem to
serve as elements of thought are certain signs and more or less clear
images which can be 'voluntarily' reproduced and combined...The above
mentioned elements are, in my case, of visual and some muscular type.
Conventional words and other signs (SBC's) have to be sought after
laboriously only after a second stage, when the mentioned associative play
is sufficiently established and can be reproduced at will."

The geneticist Galton; " It is a serious drawback ;-) to me in writing,
and still more in explaining myself, that I do not think as easily in
words as otherwise ;-). It often happens ;-) that after being hard at
work, and having arrived at results that are perfectly clear and
satisfactory to myself, when I try to express them in language I feel that
I must begin by putting myself upon quite another intellectual plane ;-).
I have to translate my thoughts in to a language that does not run very
evenly with them. I therefore waste a vast deal of time in seeking
appropriate words and phrases, and am conscious, when required to speak on
a sudden, of being often very obscure through mere verbal maladroitness,
and not through want of clearness of perception. This is one of the small
annoyances of my life."

It is pure wrong headedness on my part now to ask you to think of
'particles' as 'bullets', 'missiles' and the like of 'words' (SBC)
-especially those if they are "justifications''...(still)...and to think
of 'fields' and 'dreams' and 'imaginings' or 'paintings' as "manifestings"

"In such a view, the notion of an ultimate set of particles constituting
the whole (universe) seems no restriction upon our way of thinking at all,
because it appears that one has an infinite freedom of choice of
properties that these particles might have. But, of course, it is a
serious restriction in fact. One may understand something of the nature
of the restriction by considering a man who is walking on a vast,
practically limitless, planar surface, and who concentrates his attention
almost exclusively on a very complex system of paths along which he can
continue to walk indefinitely; without noticing that he is limited in not
being able in this way to look at what is above and below this surface.
Similarly, by keeping one's mind narrowly focussed on the limitless
elaboration about the supposed particle constitution of the whole (of
reality), one may easily lose sight of the fact that in this way one's
attention never leaves the " plane" defined by the 'particle concept of
the whole.'" David Bohm.

Dan, i think those words will throw you somewhat out of 'time' through
'Time' and into 'TIME'. Only you will 'see' the 'globe', the 'tear' ;-),
the 'fall', the 'rose', the 'garden' and the "lostness in foundness" of
the image. Erasure is sometimes a delay, a pause in what seems to be
happening, i want to keep inside myself the notion that this erasure, this
pause, is indeed "pregnant" with possibility.



Angel Meadow

(Yesterday afternoon while preparing this contribution for another place
and copied in part here, i saw a quattrocento angel, sitting upon the
wire. He was bathing in the rain...his arc to God. In the first half of
the 15th cent. the sculptor Lorenzo Ghiberti embellished the Florentine
baptistery with his splendid bronze doors, ...and Giotto, the
shepherd/artist had already drawn the 'perfect circle' with his
'free-hand' from his owned 'free-energy' ;-)


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