Learning and Trust LO13397

Mnr AM de Lange (AMDELANGE@gold.up.ac.za)
Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:54:10 GMT+2

Suzanne Deakins wrote on 12 Apr in LO13208

> This may or not may fit this discussion, but not trusting the world is
> learned through NOT having been able to have our "trusting" needs met as
> children.

Dear organlearners,

Thank you Suzanne for sharing your thoughts with us. What you have said
above, is about how I viewed trust up to 1972. But since then I have
experienced a number of remarkable paradigm shifts. Today I can offer a
different viewpoint. Children do not need a world which they can trust.
Children need a world which can accomodate and promote their creativity.
It is when they create to their fullest potential when they are most

> Trust comes as adults when we learn
> enough about ourselves to realize that we are capable of recognizing value
> and worth in others and in our self and know that many times situations
> present themselves as the lessons needed for the next step in personal
> consciousness growth.

What a wonderful sentence, except for the word 'Trust' with which it
begins. Are you sure that this word identifies what you have had in mind?
Might it not be the word 'Wisdom'? I find that I can relate to most of the
things which you have said, except for the word trust. Here are another

> We can only trust
> our world to the degree we understand our self and our needs, our desires
> and our internal motivations.

Again a wonderful sentence, except for the word 'trust'. Here I would have
used the words 'interact creatively'.

> Trust in deity, and however you define this
> personally in your life, works, but you are asked by all deity to make the
> final choices mentally and emotionally. And it is in these choices that
> you must know and understand yourself to be able to trust the worldly
> interaction.

Again, two wonderful sentences, except for the last occurance of the word
'trust'. Here I would have used the word 'manage'.

> To say that each action you take is "deity inspired and
> deity responsible," places the responsibility for life decisions outside
> of your control. This is perhaps okay for a while, but eventually we must
> all face our own consciousness and unconscious and its' part in life's
> drama.

I agree fully. Let us not confuse 'deity inspired' and 'deity responsible'
with "trust in God". Oliver Cromwell had a wonderful saying: Trust in God
and keep your gun powder dry!

> These statements are in no manner meant to discourage prayer, meditation
> and the asking for guidance in life from deity or higher sources. BUT if
> we continue to place the control and responsibility for reactions and life
> happenings outside of our self, who do we turn to in a real crisis, for
> guidance and help?

We have to understand that even a crisis can be extremely learnful because
of the immense forces and fluxes which operate in a crisis. A crisis is a
producer of entropy and hence its first manifestation as chaos par
excellence. Unfortunately, our epistemology has not yet developed to
manage the second manifestation, namely order.

> That is, if your deity is the ultimate causer in your
> life, and you lose a child, or spouse, whom do you beseech for comfort,
> guidance and peace?

I beseech God for comfort, guidance and peace. He can be trusted -
everything hapens to us for the better. Sometimes it took me many years to
understand why some terrible things happend to me. But today I even know
why: the complexer the creation He has in mind for us, the longer the
creation time we have to allow for it.

> And do you see these as your ultimate punishment for
> misbehavior?

There are two types of "punishment". The one type of "punishment" is that
which a person experiences through a lack of creativity. Every person
should try and learn from these punishments. The death of someone dear to
us is seldom through a lack of creativity. Thus the death of a beloved one
should not be viewed as a punishment.

The other type of punishment is that which will occur on the last day of
this dispensation.

> Or do you turn to yourself and seek to understand the cycles
> of life and deal with your personal reactions to life circumstances, then
> turning to deity for the grace, peace and guidance needed for decisions
> and actions you must take?

Yes, this is what I do. Let me try to formulate it in other words.

God is Creator. He has given us as humans the highest degree of creativity
among all creations in this universe. Creativity is not static. What we
make of it, is our own responsibility. I have mention Oliver Cromwell's
saying. Let me adjust it for the new era which lies before us:


> Just some thoughts. Hope they add to the conversation...it is very
> interesting.

Wonderful thoughts. I have enjoyed them. Thank you very much.

Best wishes


At de Lange Gold Fields Computer Centre for Education University of Pretoria Pretoria, South Africa email: amdelange@gold.up.ac.za

Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>