Process - Structure LO26607

From: Leo Minnigh (
Date: 05/02/01

Replying to LO26602 --

Dear LO'ers,

May I add something to the dialogue between At de Lange and Hanching

Since last December I am reading slowly the Divina Commedia of Dante
Aleghieri. This book was written in 1300. It is composed of three parts:
Infeno, Purgatorio and Paradiso.

In total it contains 34+33+33=100 Canto's. Each Canto consits of roughly
140 lines which makes the total of 14,000 lines! Usually I read before
sleeping one Canto. Last night it was Canto XXIX of the Paradiso.

After nearly finishing the whole book (recently published in a beautiful
and new translation in Dutch) it again and again reminds me of the
dialogues on this list. And again and again it strikes me how much the
writings of Dante and of At de Lange coincide. For instance, it was for me
a revelation to read the reasons to enter in the inferno. These reasons
are nothing more than if one WITH PURPOSE impairs one of the 7 E's of At!

But there is so much more.

Last night my eyes followed the words in Canto 29 of the Paradiso.
Hanching, maybe you find another great 'answer' to your point/dilemma of
the 'organization structure' and the subject of this very thread. Please
read closely the 6th - 12th terzetto on this matter. (I have below copied
this Canto from ; translation by
H.W. Longfellow).

Are these 700 years old words not fascinating?

In this very Canto somewhat further(terzetto 28 and further) Dante says
some very interesting things about philosophers and rote
learners/reproducers. The latter catagory is the reason of so much
misunderstandings of the words in the Bible and the reason of so much
corruption in religious matters.

Reading the Divina Commedia has brought me in a state of peaceful
contemplation and gave me a greater sense of agape. Maybe this book should
be on the reading list of many managers. But I am afraid of the effect if
these managers are rote learners/reproducers, instead of being

Much love, Leo

And here follows Canto XXIX:

Paradiso: Canto XXIX

    At what time both the children of Latona,
Surmounted by the Ram and by the Scales,
Together make a zone of the horizon,

    As long as from the time the zenith holds them
In equipoise, till from that girdle both
Changing their hemisphere disturb the balance,

    So long, her face depicted with a smile,
Did Beatrice keep silence while she gazed
Fixedly at the point which had o'ercome me.

    Then she began: "I say, and I ask not
What thou dost wish to hear, for I have seen it
Where centres every When and every 'Ubi.'

    Not to acquire some good unto himself,
Which is impossible, but that his splendour
In its resplendency may say, 'Subsisto,'

   In his eternity outside of time,
Outside all other limits, as it pleased him,
Into new Loves the Eternal Love unfolded.

    Nor as if torpid did he lie before;
For neither after nor before proceeded
The going forth of God upon these waters.

    Matter and Form unmingled and conjoined
Came into being that had no defect,
E'en as three arrows from a three-stringed bow.

    And as in glass, in amber, or in crystal
A sunbeam flashes so, that from its coming
To its full being is no interval,

    So from its Lord did the triform effect
Ray forth into its being all together,
Without discrimination of beginning.

    Order was con-created and constructed
In substances, and summit of the world
Were those wherein the pure act was produced.

    Pure potentiality held the lowest part;
Midway bound potentiality with act
Such bond that it shall never be unbound.

    Jerome has written unto you of angels
Created a long lapse of centuries
Or ever yet the other world was made;

    But written is this truth in many places
By writers of the Holy Ghost, and thou
Shalt see it, if thou lookest well thereat.

    And even reason seeth it somewhat,
For it would not concede that for so long
Could be the motors without their perfection.

    Now dost thou know both where and when these
Loves Created were, and how; so that extinct
In thy desire already are three fires.

    Nor could one reach, in counting, unto twenty
So swiftly, as a portion of these angels
Disturbed the subject of your elements.

    The rest remained, and they began this art
Which thou discernest, with so great delight
That never from their circling do they cease.

    The occasion of the fall was the accursed
Presumption of that One, whom thou hast seen
By all the burden of the world constrained.

    Those whom thou here beholdest modest were
To recognise themselves as of that goodness
Which made them apt for so much understanding;

    On which account their vision was exalted
By the enlightening grace and their own merit,
So that they have a full and steadfast will.

    I would not have thee doubt, but certain be,
'Tis meritorious to receive this grace,
According as the affection opens to it.

    Now round about in this consistory
Much mayst thou contemplate, if these my words
Be gathered up, without all further aid.

    But since upon the earth, throughout your schools,
They teach that such is the angelic nature
That it doth hear, and recollect, and will,

    More will I say, that thou mayst see unmixed
The truth that is confounded there below,
Equivocating in such like prelections.

    These substances, since in God's countenance
They jocund were, turned not away their sight
>From that wherefrom not anything is hidden;

    Hence they have not their vision intercepted
By object new, and hence they do not need
To recollect, through interrupted thought.

    So that below, not sleeping, people dream,
Believing they speak truth, and not believing;
And in the last is greater sin and shame.

    Below you do not journey by one path
Philosophising; so transporteth you
Love of appearance and the thought thereof.

    And even this above here is endured
With less disdain, than when is set aside
The Holy Writ, or when it is distorted.

    They think not there how much of blood it costs
To sow it in the world, and how he pleases
Who in humility keeps close to it.

    Each striveth for appearance, and doth make
His own inventions; and these treated are
By preachers, and the Evangel holds its peace.

    One sayeth that the moon did backward turn,
In the Passion of Christ, and interpose herself
So that the sunlight reached not down below;

    And lies; for of its own accord the light
Hid itself; whence to Spaniards and to Indians,
As to the Jews, did such eclipse respond.

    Florence has not so many Lapi and Bindi
As fables such as these, that every year
Are shouted from the pulpit back and forth,

    In such wise that the lambs, who do not know,
Come back from pasture fed upon the wind,
And not to see the harm doth not excuse them.

    Christ did not to his first disciples say,
'Go forth, and to the world preach idle tales,
' But unto them a true foundation gave;

    And this so loudly sounded from their lips,
That, in the warfare to enkindle Faith,
They made of the Evangel shields and lances.

    Now men go forth with jests and drolleries
To preach, and if but well the people laugh,
The hood puffs out, and nothing more is asked.

    But in the cowl there nestles such a bird,
That, if the common people were to see it,
They would perceive what pardons they confide in,

    For which so great on earth has grown the folly,
That, without proof of any testimony,
To each indulgence they would flock together.

    By this Saint Anthony his pig doth fatten,
And many others, who are worse than pigs,
Paying in money without mark of coinage.

    But since we have digressed abundantly,
Turn back thine eyes forthwith to the right path,
So that the way be shortened with the time.

    This nature doth so multiply itself
In numbers, that there never yet was speech
Nor mortal fancy that can go so far.

    And if thou notest that which is revealed
By Daniel, thou wilt see that in his thousands
Number determinate is kept concealed.

    The primal light, that all irradiates it,
By modes as many is received therein,
As are the splendours wherewith it is mated.

    Hence, inasmuch as on the act conceptive
The affection followeth, of love the sweetness
Therein diversely fervid is or tepid.

    The height behold now and the amplitude
Of the eternal power, since it hath made
Itself so many mirrors, where 'tis broken,

    One in itself remaining as before."

dr. Leo D. Minnigh
Library Technical University Delft
PO BOX 98, 2600 MG Delft, The Netherlands
Tel.: 31 15 2782226
        Let your thoughts meander towards a sea of ideas.


Leo Minnigh <>

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