Replying to LO27156 --
> thank you for these rich pictures on freedom and peace and especially the
> concise summary at the end of part two:
> >Each system which organises
> >spontaneously, must have its own sources of free energy to sustain its
> >work. This is freedom. Each such system must not be deluged by entropy
> >produced elsewhere, but allowed to create self constructively. This is
Yes, that is a form of freedom, variety and choice, or freedom of
association. But not freedom from materialism. (in the sense of matter).
(That is what I mean when I say "beyond")
> What I will have to give more thought once again is that you name sources
> of free energy as food, be it physical or mental (information), also your
> warning to distinguish food from junk food will need more thinking.
> I am also struggling with what "mental free energy" could be.
I think this is the crux of the issue. But never mind we all struggle, for
peace, harmony, existence, life is one long struggle. This might sound
like cold comfort though. I struggle with my emotions, I struggle with my
peers, I struggle with myself, I struggle with my environment. Yes,
struggle and freedom are closely related and now we ask for freedom.
What a PARADOX.
To struggle is to accept they we are bound.
> Frankly my
> mental model on this is/was the same as the one that led me to claim, that
> "temperature" for the force-flux-equation of spiritual entropy production
> is the same as the physical temperature of the body. There is only one
> free energy. The rest is a question of levels of organization up to the
> spheres of mind and spirit. And this free energy is gained by eating food
> or utilizing other sources of physical free energy like lying in the sun.
> In this model, information can only connect in a form-like relation like
> the extremes medizine and poison above, but not as a source of free
> But there has been this disturbing questioning of you just before my
> holiday, and this even more disturbing "beyond" by Gavin, which made me
> realize that I have used my learning on your deep creativity to make
> myself comfortable in a world without "beyond".
This was not meant to be disturbing but a typical Gavin probe, that jolts
the mental paradigms, and this I mentioned else where is our mental
paradigm which acts as if it has survival value. (this my dear friend is
the algedonic signal). I am sorry if it has disturbed you this is not my
intention. But then disturbed is an outcome of the algedonic signal, try
let it challenge you rather.
> What does make me so
> reluctant to think of real "mental free energy"? On one level, I see a big
> accomplishment towards wholeness that the same physical laws apply to
> earth and the sky above with the planets and stars (not only isomorphic
Why do you not try apply this thinking to the stars and the planets, in
conjunction with relativity theory and see what happens?
> But on another level, although I am sure that I am not endangered
> too much to serve as food self for others physically, I am not so sure
> mentally and spiritually. Here I feel more like a frightened child.
That is what it feels like to us all. The terror is the algedonic signal
doing its work. We have a wonderful channel for that in the brain it
includes out sensory inputs-our amygdala (transformer)- outputs (back into
the body, it makes us quiver, increase in temperature, sweat, increase our
heart rate) and feedback's and act sometimes totally inappropriately,
because we are stuck in a paradigm that might be1000 years old.......
> remember that the relation between openness as an essentiality and
> protection as a necessity was of major importance to our dear Leo a good
> while ago.
Necessity (process) is the opposite of freedom. This must sound like a
major piece of nonsense but I urge you to push your mental boundary and
feel what it must feel like to be a processionary caterpillar.
How much freedom do they have. This experiment has been done years ago,
the caterpillar mistook action for need and DIED doing so, unit entropy.
And protection is the algedonic signal here that signal is portrayed as
the needs for protection, support, safely, and the fear of insecurity,
abandonment, neglect, defenselessness.
These are powerful fears, no wonder we feel like frightened children.
Treat yourself kindly when you have these fears, use them as your ally not
your enemy. They are there to be used by us in the most constructive way.
Just last week in a negotiation that was going to decide some outcomes for
us (my partner and I produce MCT (mercury cadmium telluride)
semiconductors). Boom!!! I had this feeling of fear in my gut. I
discussed this with my business associate and we both came to the
conclusion that our negotiating partner was trying to trap us. I used this
feeling to secure a great outcome.
No society has ever survived long by shoring up against their fears. Feel
your fears and AC-KNOWLEDGE (is this word a coincidence, I think not)
them use them what does your fears tell you. That is your personal
> Whatever may be the outcome of this questioning, I am very grateful to see
> how much freedom and peace depends form our behaviour as consumer.
I would severely question that one. As I said before it is an illusion.
This is why we see variety or variety stores. We think that it gives us
freedom, yes on one level , of choice of product, but binds us severely on
> still have the choice. Let us remember that this is not true for many,
> many poor people. Which path are we following in choosing?
Choose one and it binds you, choose another and it binds you, choose the
hard one and it challenges you. But the struggle is the same.
> This is not a
> question of goals as usual for decision making. This is a question of
the question is in what direction and for what purpose. Choose one and it
binds you choose another and it binds you. Keep changing paths and it
binds you to the very value of choice.
Gavin Ritz <firstname.lastname@example.org>
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