altruism LO28515

From: Judy Tal (
Date: 05/16/02

Replying to LO28469 --

Dear Andrew, At and Organlearners,

You should know that part of my free energy is engaged in admiration. How
do you dear fLOwers manage to read and digest (how else? :-) one thought,
and then create and formalise another (in words ... Andrew adds colour too
:-), and stay reliable (respect your liabilities), and stay social
(respect and cherish your present (double again? ... but who counts, after
all, this is not backgammon that we play here ... this game is not a game,
by all means ... (double? turtles?))).

i think i made my point - even had to use nested brackets in my
description. please accept my apology for not being able to respond to all
the enlightments that light-up my world.

i thought i'll try to concentrate on this subject and found that the
issues we discuss (cross subject-line, cross time, cross discipline, cross
country :-) are strongly related (It shouldn't surprise US! :-). Thus,
i'll allow myself to stay with this subject and at the same time "mingle"
between the other thoughts for a while ... my apology again :-).

At wrote:

> Thank you very much for this information. As you might know, one of my
> idiosyncrasies is to indentify ESCs (Elementary Sustainers of Creativity).
> This is complex task since I have to make sure of three things
> (1) An ESC has to promote creativity, given the problem that this ESC can
> be misused to suppress creativity.
> (2) An ESC has to be practiced by some humans of whatever labels (like
> age, culture, gender)
> (3) An ESC has to occur definitely among animals too to indicate that it
> goes wider than human existence.
> Up to now, taking me twenty years, I have identified five of them:-
> thoughts-exchanging (dialogue)
> problem-solving
> game-playing
> exemplar-exploring
> art-expressing

You are always welcome, dear At.

If i understood what you're looking for, i could promote by all means a
collaboration between you and Amotz Zahavi's team (Avishag. Amotz's wife
and a well respected Professor of Plant Physiology, joined this research
from the first step).

Did you have "information - communicating" in mind? it seems to obey the
necessary conditions to become an ESC, but is it sufficient, at the end of
the Information era? Yes, it can be the proper timing for such a lesson
(like Jan pointed out - learning can occur only when not controlled).

Let me provide more details from the little i know about the research:

The authors claim that altruistic gestures, when observed from a different
angle (paradigm), namely - means of communication, serve as effective
verifying signals.

In other words - for a signal to be effective it must be reliable, and to
be reliable it must impose a cost (a handicap) on the signaller.

This paradigm, as the authors point out, is supported by various
observations (not only those which took place in the Negev) - e.g..
Thompson gazelles' high jumps, peacocks' massive tail ... if it helps, i
can look it up and provide you with larger Information than the little
that is stored in my memory :-), At.

i agree with you - it is fascinating indeed.



PS - By Jewish tradition one can "reserve" a seat in Heaven by altruistic
gestures. There is no doubt in my heart as for the value of a seat among
the fLOwers in the Garden of Eden ... i only wonder what remains then from
altruism :-)


Judy Tal <>

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