Self-organising complex marketing systems LO26626

From: AM de Lange (
Date: 05/04/01

Replying to LO26601 --

Dear Organlearners,

Gavin Ritz <> writes:

>I have just got around to read this message and would
>like to comment of some of the issues of marketing.
>This might sound really crazy but in my opinion there
>is no such thing as a self -organizing complex market
>system. Self organization can only work with wholes.
>By the above label implication one could then assume
>that there is such a thing as a marketing system.
>(categorical identity). Can it be identified categorically?
>My answer to that is I don't think so.

Greetings dear Gavin,

I understand exactly what you mean. There are far too many specific
businesses in which their marketing division do not operate as a
self-organising system. And the reason is in many cases exactly what you
identified -- too litle wholeness within themselves as the marketing
division and too little wholeness in the rest of the organistion. But tell
it to them, even as a consulatnt paid to do so, and see what happens!

Wholeness for me has two important feature -- unity and associativity. If
one of these two features gets impaired, wholeness decreases. The unity is
not by far as big a problem as the associativity, i.e. assuring commuting
structurers of the form X*Y*Z within marketing itself with Y as
commutator. Furthermore, increasing wholeness cannot be forced upon the
marketing system, it has to to develop from within. Many businesses do not
allow their marketing division to self-organisise according to whatever
principles (7Es or not). Usually it is the command&control structure
taking the lead -- "you cannot do what is good unless I give you

I think that Chris had the cell phone market at large in mind and not a
particular industry. But I think that it is better fro him to reply on
this issue.

With care and best wishes


At de Lange <> Snailmail: A M de Lange Gold Fields Computer Centre Faculty of Science - University of Pretoria Pretoria 0001 - Rep of South Africa

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